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Martha S. Lyon's avatar

Hi David: I have a long list of priorities that supersede offering ideas here, but what the hay. Any response you have will help with my own research.

Assuming your pieces are honest, sincere assessments of their respective topics, after reading a few that are related to politics of the last 5 years in the U.S., I thought 'well, golly, if we can divide human beings into various categories within which all members are exactly the same and no particular knowledge nor skill is required to assess and determine the "handling" of each category of human being, we can dispense with that entire branch of psychology and eliminate all references to it in science, academia and research funding sources.

What do ya think? In this instance, the category of "Voters/Supporters of Trump" is subdivided into a category of "Female Voters/Supporters of Trump" that comprises maybe 40-50 million adult females. The identifiable qualities and characteristics of one such female are then used to assess and predict the thoughts and behavior of that segment of the population. From that information, "we," whomever that is, determine how this category of beings is to be henceforth "handled." Translation: determine what we should do with "them" --- the degree of respect and consideration to which they're entitled, the type(s) of job(s), position(s) and level of authority and power "we" can trust them with, whether they can be retrained or otherwise brainwashed into adopting our way of thinking as their way of thinking, whether they should be permitted to propagate (if future generations become too large, they might find a way to take over and do the same to you), and so on.

What all this means is that you've discovered that the American version of human beings who can be divided and subdivided into distinct categories based on all those members being exactly the same. Based on your discovery, though Automaton is typically Automaton Sans Personality, the identifiable qualities and characteristics exhibited by the American version of being puts American human beings one level above the typical automaton.

Bottom Line: Having reduced human behavior in general and the behavior of American beings specificially to such a simple concept and having determined that our ability to understand it and work with it for the benefit of a given society is such an easy process requiring no particular skill nor education, we can now eliminate all references to this branch of psychology from the science of psychology, from academia and from research funding sources.

Little effort is required for the end game --- deciding what to do with and about this group --- 'cause you (all who believe this approach is valid) need only do what China does. In fact, what the hell, why not just be absorbed by China so their leaders can do all the heavy lifting? We're losing our identity as Americans anyway.

I don't know how many people share your perspective. I'm curious about whether your essays and similar essays by others are partly tongue-in-cheek or exaggerations for effect or, alternatively, are the sincere beliefs of the writers who consider this position to be valid and/or helpful and/or beneficial for society and/or a valid jumping-off point used to determine how to go forward as either a society or as a bunch of separate groups each entitled to its own form or version of special treatment.

Does this perspective preclude or not give you the space for recognizing what else is going on in the country, such as the implosion of our society and democracy, or to see its direct connection to all else that's going on? For all we know, the implosion, including the aforementioned aspect of it, is being orchestrated by just a few or a small group of people with the money, means and influence to pull it off.

I'm also sincerely very interested in learning more about the anger I hear and the hate I see in this and similar essays. I've always been apolitical and, because Trump makes my skin crawl, i've been ignoring everything all these years, and, since I couldn't bring myself to compromise my standards to vote for Trump or Biden, I voted for Brock Pierce. Then, on Nov. 5, someone showed me a graph comparing the news coverage of Trump by various news outlets, namely CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC, that had been negative --- 91% and 93% that jumped to 100% near the election --- to Biden's negative coverage of 7%.

Even after taking into account all the negative coverage Trump generated by hs own words and actions, those percentages are still too disproportionate to be valid and, thus, prove those news outlets were censoring positive news about Trump and censoring negative news about Biden. Any remaining doubt about that has been quashed by by the recordings of CNN's Jeff Zucker directing his reporters and show hosts to cover X but not cover Z.

As a consequence, I started listening and researching, and what I discovered sickens me, as it should every American. As noted, I'm not a fan of Trump, but I draw the line at human decency and basic respect.

What's both funny and ironic about all this is this: Rather than take the high for the sake of the country, their fellow Americans and their own self-respect, elected and appointed Democrats, Trump haters and other Democrats around the country have been driven and controlled by hate since 2015, and, in so doing, they compromised whatever values and principles they had in order to stoop to Trump's level and behave as badly as he was, except they were worse.

Trump has a boatload of flaws and, like the Democrats and Trump haters, he lies, but what makes the lying by the Left, if I may call them that for easy reference, far worse is that, while Trump lies and exaggerates the truth to feed his ego in ways too obvious to not recognize as such, the Left has been lying for five years, and still is, intentionally and deliberately for one very nefarious purpose: the total dehumanization and annihilation of one human being.

Of those whose perspective and beliefs align with this and similar essays, can anyone explain the source of all the hatred? Why has no one been able to separate Trump's offensive personality from his policies? Does everyone lack the cognitive ability to do so or are they simply unwilling to do so? How did Americans benefit from years of that hate and all the lies it triggered? Why are these folks unable to recognize the double talk from the Left, what we used to call two-faced, even though it's all been recorded.

For instance, you can replay elected Democrats complaining about the lack of integrity in our election process for years and as recently as September, 2020, then replay their sudden, post-election 100% confidence in a (suddenly) 100% accurate election process. Since I began listening and paying attention, I've seen this done over and over with every single issue we're dealing with.

If you can't deny that knee on George Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, how can the Left deny the truth of all these videos showing the two-faced nature of elected Democrats and the news outlets that, in supporting only them, are equally biased? Is there an explanation for that?

Every thought process, every evaluation, assessment and decision needs a starting point, a foundation upon which to stand that is immovable and unchangeable. Since opinions have no value beyond cocktail party banter, that foundation must be undeniably factual. It's like having a line and boundaries you won't cross no matter what.

Consider standing on this foundation: (1) A free society cannot exist without virtue in its people, objective and impartial news investigation and reporting, and an impartial judiciary. (2) You or I mistreating, disrespecting and dehumanizing a person doesn't show the world he or she is a horrible person; it shows the world you and I are. And (3) No good ever comes from hate.

As of this writing, that foundation no longer exists. As to the censorship, it's not about big tech having the right to censor what they want. It's their inability to understand why, as an American, they shouldn't want to and should, instead, be treating the "marketplace of ideas" concept as sacred. Want to know what a complicated soup of elements all this is? That fact leads us to the adverse consequences of the inadequate K-12 education they all received. We also have to question to what extent boomers messed up the parenting of all these people.

Hope I haven't provided too much to consider. Be glad I'm stopping here, because there are many more layers to this onion. We are precariously close to losing it all. That so few seem to recognize that or care is quite disturbing. And I haven't even touched on the damaging changes being made to K-12 curriculum and corporate in-service training. Your thoughts?

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David Gottfried's avatar

Something doesn’t smell right here.

In any event, I will, for now, respond.

My comments will be in red. If I can’t put them in red, I will put them in caps.

Hi David: I have a long list of priorities that supersede offering ideas here, but what the hay. Any response you have will help with my own research.

AND WHAT ARE YOU RESEARCHING?

Assuming your pieces are honest, sincere assessments of their respective topics, after reading a few that are related to politics of the last 5 years in the U.S., I thought 'well, golly, if we can divide human beings into various categories within which all members are exactly the same

SINCE WHEN DID I SAY THAT ALL MEMBERS OF A GROUP ARE THE SAME

and no particular knowledge nor skill is required to assess and determine the "handling" of each category of human being, we can dispense with that entire branch of psychology

WHICH BRANCH OF PSYCH ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

and eliminate all references to it in science, academia and research funding sources. What do ya think?

I THINK YOU ARE TRYING TO WRITE LONG MESSAGES WITH A VENEER OF SOPHISTICATION WHICH SAY VERY LITTLE.

In this instance, the category of "Voters/Supporters of Trump" is subdivided into a category of "Female Voters/Supporters of Trump" that comprises maybe 40-50 million adult females. The identifiable qualities and characteristics of one such female are then used to assess and predict the thoughts and behavior of that segment of the population. From that information, "we," whomever that is, determine how this category of beings is to be henceforth "handled."

IF WE WERE TO RID DISCUSSIONS OF ALL PERSONAL OR ANECDOTAL OR COLORFUL ACCOUNTS, WE WOULD BE LEFT WITH ARID AND UGLY NARRATIVES

Translation: determine what we should do with "them" --- the degree of respect and consideration to which they're entitled, the type(s) of job(s), position(s) and level of authority and power "we" can trust them with, whether they can be retrained or otherwise brainwashed into adopting our way of thinking as their way of thinking, whether they should be permitted to propagate (if future generations become too large, they might find a way to take over and do the same to you), and so on

ARE YOU ON METHEDRINE. WHEN THE FUCK DID I DISCUSS DOING SOMETHING WITH THEM AND WHO ARE THEM

. What all this means is that you've discovered that the American version of human beings who can be divided and subdivided into distinct categories based on all those members being exactly the same. Based on your discovery, though Automaton is typically Automaton Sans Personality, the identifiable qualities and characteristics exhibited by the American version of being puts American human beings one level above the typical automaton. Bottom Line: Having reduced human behavior in general and the behavior of American beings specificially to such a simple concept and having determined that our ability to understand it and work with it for the benefit of a given society is such an easy process requiring no particular skill nor education,

I GUESS IN YOUR VIEW WE MUST NEVER, EVER GENERALIZE. THEREFORE, I GUESS THAT MARX WAS A SINNER WHEN HE SAID, IN HIS ODE TO THE PARIS COMMUNE, “COMPARE THESE PARISIANS, STORMING HEAVEN WITH THE SLAVES TO HEAVEN OF THE GERMAN, PRUSSIAN… “ BECAUSE HE GENERALIZED WHEN HE CHARACTERIZED PARISIANS AS PEOPLE WHO “STORMED HEAVEN.” I GUESS WILLIAM JAMES SINNED WHEN HE GENERALIZED BY SAYING THAT AMERICANS WORSHIP AT “THE ALTAR OF THE BITCH GODDESS SUCCESS.”

we can now eliminate all references to this branch of psychology from the science of psychology,

WHAT BRANCH OF PSYCHOLOGY ????

from academia and from research funding sources. Little effort is required for the end game --- deciding what to do with and about this group --- 'cause you (all who believe this approach is valid) need only do what China does.

WHAT ,MADE YOU SUDDENLY SEGUE INTO CHINA

In fact, what the hell, why not just be absorbed by China so their leaders can do all the heavy lifting? We're losing our identity as Americans anyway. I don't know how many people share your perspective. I'm curious about whether your essays and similar essays by others are partly tongue-in-cheek or exaggerations for effect or, alternatively, are the sincere beliefs of the writers who consider this position to be valid and/or helpful and/or beneficial for society and/or a valid jumping-off point used to determine how to go forward as either a society or as a bunch of separate groups each entitled to its own form or version of special treatment. Does this perspective preclude or not give you the space for recognizing what else is going on in the country, such as the implosion of our society and democracy, or to see its direct connection to all else that's going on? For all we know, the implosion, including the aforementioned aspect of it, is being orchestrated by just a few or a small group of people with the money, means and influence to pull it off. I'm also sincerely very interested in learning more about the anger I hear and the hate I see in this and similar essays. I've always been apolitical and, because Trump makes my skin crawl, i've been ignoring everything all these years, and, since I couldn't bring myself to compromise my standards to vote for Trump or Biden, I voted for Brock Pierce. Then, on Nov. 5, someone showed me a graph comparing the news coverage of Trump by various news outlets, namely CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC, that had been negative --- 91% and 93% that jumped to 100% near the election --- to Biden's negative coverage of 7%. Even after taking into account all the negative coverage Trump generated by hs own words and actions, those percentages are still too disproportionate to be valid and, thus, prove those news outlets were censoring positive news about Trump and censoring negative news about Biden. Any remaining doubt about that has been quashed by by the recordings of CNN's Jeff Zucker directing his reporters and show hosts to cover X but not cover Z. As a consequence, I started listening and researching, and what I discovered sickens me, as it should every American. As noted, I'm not a fan of Trump, but I draw the line at human decency and basic respect. What's both funny and ironic about all this is this: Rather than take the high for the sake of the country, their fellow Americans and their own self-respect, elected and appointed Democrats, Trump haters and other Democrats around the country have been driven and controlled by hate since 2015, and, in so doing, they compromised whatever values and principles they had in order to stoop to Trump's level and behave as badly as he was, except they were worse. Trump has a boatload of flaws and, like the Democrats and Trump haters, he lies, but what makes the lying by the Left, if I may call them that for easy reference, far worse is that, while Trump lies and exaggerates the truth to feed his ego in ways too obvious to not recognize as such, the Left has been lying for five years, and still is, intentionally and deliberately for one very nefarious purpose: the total dehumanization and annihilation of one human being. Of those whose perspective and beliefs align with this and similar essays, can anyone explain the source of all the hatred? Why has no one been able to separate Trump's offensive personality from his policies? Does everyone lack the cognitive ability to do so or are they simply unwilling to do so? How did Americans benefit from years of that hate and all the lies it triggered? Why are these folks unable to recognize the double talk from the Left, what we used to call two-faced, even though it's all been recorded. For instance, you can replay elected Democrats complaining about the lack of integrity in our election process for years and as recently as September, 2020, then replay their sudden, post-election 100% confidence in a (suddenly) 100% accurate election process. Since I began listening and paying attention, I've seen this done over and over with every single issue we're dealing with. If you can't deny that knee on George Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, how can the Left deny the truth of all these videos showing the two-faced nature of elected Democrats and the news outlets that, in supporting only them, are equally biased? Is there an explanation for that? Every thought process, every evaluation, assessment and decision needs a starting point, a foundation upon which to stand that is immovable and unchangeable. Since opinions have no value beyond cocktail party banter, that foundation must be undeniably factual. It's like having a line and boundaries you won't cross no matter what. Consider standing on this foundation: (1) A free society cannot exist without virtue in its people, objective and impartial news investigation and reporting, and an impartial judiciary. (2) You or I mistreating, disrespecting and dehumanizing a person doesn't show the world he or she is a horrible person; it shows the world you and I are. And (3) No good ever comes from hate. As of this writing, that foundation no longer exists. As to the censorship, it's not about big tech having the right to censor what they want. It's their inability to understand why, as an American, they shouldn't want to and should, instead, be treating the "marketplace of ideas" concept as sacred. Want to know what a complicated soup of elements all this is? That fact leads us to the adverse consequences of the inadequate K-12 education they all received. We also have to question to what extent boomers messed up the parenting of all these people. Hope I haven't provided too much to consider. Be glad I'm stopping here, because there are many more layers to this onion. We are precariously close to losing it all. That so few seem to recognize that or care is quite disturbing. And I haven't even touched on the damaging changes being made to K-12 curriculum and corporate in-service training. Your thoughts?

Expand full comment