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Graham Vincent's avatar

Another commenter below puts this in somewhat more offensive terms (hence, perhaps, their handle). I'm here from a comment you up on my own piece, and I note your "self-defence" position. If someone wants to kill you, you will kill them.

But, did Mangioni have a self-defence defence to raise? Can you self-defend someone else? Was Robin Hood a dangerous vigilante? The Mennonites set an example that I suspect is rarely followed, backed by the story of Dirk Willems, a 16th century Dutchman: https://endlesschain.substack.com/p/on-conscientious-objection.

In terms of conscientious objection, the question is whether a pacifist would raise a firearm against anyone, even if he is the enemy. You can't test for that. You can't imagine what you would do. You'd need to be in the situation, and to see what you do do. And that could be traumatic. One can advocate for what one believes the morals tell you to do, and for whether the law provides an adequate response. But actually predicting what you yourself would do - if you know with certainty, well done.

On Vietnam, I'd not heard this thing about oil before - if it's so, it will undoubtedly have been a factor: countries that pose no direct material benefit are those in which the CIA engineers a coup; with oil wells, the US sends its own military in.

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Fredric J. Kroll's avatar

It was not our resisitance, in whichever form, that brought an end to the Vietnam War: it was the discovery that there was NO offshore oil along the coast of Vietnam, and thus the war was not PROFITABLE! Then the politicians used our resistance as an alibi to divest themselves of an adventure which no longer brought in any money.

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